Talking with film-maker, author and musician Jamie Catto about shadow work and the creative process. While you may know Jamie from Faithless, I was particularly interested in his spiritual guidance and share our mutual adoration of Ram Dass, about whom Jamie produced and directed his latest documentary Becoming Nobody.
Ten minutes into the podcast, Jamie guides me through an exercise in shadow work; dealing with my inner critic and persistent feeling of not (being) good enough.
Both the exercise and our conversation around ego, creativity, self-help, enlightenment and loneliness were very helpful, even more so the second time listening. Feel free to do the exercise alongside with me and let me know how it went for you!
In this episode
00:00 Who was Ram Dass?
02:50 About “Becoming Nobody”
04:30 Ego and life as a musician
07:00 What is shadow work?
10:40 [Exercise] Letting go of perfectionism
27:30 Life is living through us, we are passengers mostly
31:10 Letting go too much: is that possible?
37:30 Doing things because you love them
42:00 Panic paradise syndrome
46:40 The 8 bowls of fulfillment
Video transcript: What is shadow work? Talking about spirituality and self help | #113 Jamie Catto
yes all right jamie wow i’m hoping this introduction will do you any um justice you’re a movie maker author musician facilitator am i forgetting something father father kind of a big one and you made a really nice documentary uh becoming nobody and i would love to talk to you about that and about who uh ramdas was um if you’re up for it of course anything yeah yeah sure so let’s start there um for people listening who’ve never ever heard about ramdas could you explain well um one of the ways you could describe him is he was really the daddy of the self-development in the west he wrote a book called be here now in the late 60s which became the beginning of all the self-help books really and he’s very he’s still the best one out of all the people that have written those books he’s the funniest the least pretentious he has this beautiful way of using his own melodrama as the lesson so it’s very like funny confessional um and all my favorite teachers are like that pema chodron whoever you know they use their own drama and uh are very much human um so he’s a wonderful sacred fool he’s hilarious he’s the deepest one i’ve ever read you know that very very from the heart and i just adore the man and uh so yeah i wrote to the foundation he was in a couple of my other movies the one giant leap movies one giant leap and what about me and um wonderful in those and um i never felt that the move there are some films about him but they’re all a little bit spiritual a little bit slightly serious and gray you know like spiritual um when he’s really not like that you know he’s really funny and silly and does not push the role of being the teacher the mask you know he’s just very human and i didn’t feel any of the movies captured that so i i said to them listen i really want to make the ultimate ramdas movie you know real tribute to him being a sacred clown you know and they were up for it and we made this yeah this lovely film becoming nobody can you uh explain the title for people who also are not familiar with his his message or his teaching yeah i mean the great trap and the root of suffering in the world is everyone trying to become somebody we’re brainwashed from the beginning you’ve got to be someone you’ve got to make your mark you’ve got to be special you’ve got to and actually the true joy and peacefulness of life is actually enjoying being ordinary letting go of the pressure of having to be special having to [Music] um really inflate the ego in unhealthy ways you know the ego is necessary to be a human [Music] but it has become so inflated the agenda of the ego to be more and more special and more and more noticed or more and more even in your own mind a string of adjectives whatever is your thing i want to be more and more genius i want to be more and more rich i want to be more and more innocent i want to be more and more something i want to be this i want to be that and the great freedom is when you drop all that and be ordinary become nobody you know just be in service and an acceptance of what life is light and dark yeah what i find really fascinating about this is that well um for example your musician as well so uh playing crowds becoming famous but also even looking at shamans it feels like this ego sometimes can be so big but still it balances out with some sort of spirituality or not non-ego um it’s not the size of the ego it’s not about not having an ego or not even really enjoying the ego it’s about not deriving your meaning from its agenda definitely enjoy it like i was in a group called faithless we would pay thousands of tens of thousands 50 000 you know like cameras flashing a great thrill but we would have a motto thrilling not meaningful like really enjoy it it’s not like oh no no ego i have to you know because then you’re pushing something away you’re still trapped if you’re grasping at it you’re trapped if you’re pushing it away with aversion that buddhists will tell you you’re also trapped it’s got you it’s still got you but if you’re if you’re like you don’t mind either way if if it comes it’s fun if it doesn’t come my life is not less or more you can enjoy all the ego things without the attachment of i need it or i’m escaping it that sounds kind of like a relief and also maybe a pitfall like no no it’s good it’s good i’m just enjoying my ego [Music] yeah is that a maori tattoo you have there oh um yes yeah well it’s actually maori oh nice yeah it’s um um inspired by it but i just gave the artist a couple of styles to work with and he just did a free hand on my left side then on the other side it’s more feminine colorful mukha yogan steel so it’s like in a workshop one of the facilitators uh once said to me um that i’m like a two-spirited person and then she hold my arms and she said well the masculine and the feminine and i looked down and i’m like oh my god how come i’ve never even seen this look at my arms and it’s already here just never noticed it the duality of it and um the fact that it was already on my body it’s really nice memory i have of that [Music] um well sorry this kind of a bridge to them uh another topic that i um was wondering about when i follow you on instagram and i look at your website ego work or our shadow site it seems like a big topic that you’re really interested in me as well it’s deeply fascinating um so could you could we start that what is ego work in your sorry shadow work in your opinion yeah it’s a good point you know a lot of people mistake they think their shadow side is their dark side but it’s not it’s the hidden side it’s all the places that when we were growing up we made unwelcome and it might have been your great excitement or your enjoyment of the sexuality of your body or you know a lot of people hide away beautiful things when they’re given negative feedback not just anger grief anxiety um so the shadow is that which is hidden and um so therefore because we’ve hidden so many wonderful and natural parts of this full spectrum of us we’ve hidden away the anger we’ve hidden away the grief if someone cries in a workshop the first thing they say is sorry you know like it’s not allowed in people’s minds or their anxiety or their neediness or their great excitement or their flamboyant entertainer enjoying being the center of attention and making people laugh or entertained or their sexuality especially so so so much has been edited away people are existing in the world as like a 20 sized version of themselves suppressing and hiding behind the mask all the other stuff even often suppressing and hiding from themselves so they think oh i’m not creative or i’m not sexy or i’m but they are really they just it’s been so long since that part was edited so it’s all waiting there and two important things about that is one the waiting there is a kind of suppression that we don’t we’ve normalized a kind of suppression which exhausts us and makes us age quicker and get ill and feel nervous and lonely and the other thing is that these parts which most people are so scared of because it’s been so long since they look towards them in their minds they’ve built to these huge phantoms really they are actually holders of treasure and protection and genius so in our games and in our workshops which are very playful and easy going we discuss them we laugh about how crazy we are we turn towards them with little games and suddenly you cash in at the casino tons of treasure which was asleep and it makes life more joyful and creative and sexy and full and juicy can you give examples of what what people can encounter if they uh do this well usually we turn away from them whenever they come up we’re like oh no you know yeah but when you turn towards them with an attitude of curiosity and welcome and a bit of humor then they talk to you and you have like these dialogues with these crazy characters that live in your head and you hear their needs and you you as an adult get to meet their needs in healthy ways instead of unhealthy ways and so a lot of it is discussion a lot of it is playing city games where we allow these characters to have the mouth we give them permission to come forward and be funny or be crazy or be vulnerable and we do it with each other and everyone realizes wow you’re just like me wow i’ve been hiding all this time what a relief community and intimacy goes huge you know in this moment and it’s just a very intimate beautiful feeling of connection with everyone as well as reclaiming a lot of treasure and wholeness and reducing the amount of stress and exhaustion maintaining the mask one thing that i kind of struggle with or is it a theme at the moment or maybe a long time um sometimes it feels like there is this nagging sense this okay [Music] that’s the doorbell never mind i’ll put it next to the door um this underlying like this nagging sense of perfectionism judgment and it seems like the more i notice it the more it’s here probably it was already here but i never really noticed it so any advice yeah yeah i would go into a dialogue with that character who lives inside you she believes the perfectionist believes that she was told very young that the way you were going to get love and the way that you would get included not pushed away was to be as perfect as possible she really took on that piece of information as true so you created a little uh strange how do i say your name yeah yeah a little chanette who lives inside who’s seven or however old and her job is to always be looking on the horizon for anything that’s not perfect to then ring the alarm bell and to always concentrate on whatever you’re doing that it is perfect and give you a little bit of extra stress to make sure you’re motivated um and she believes because you gave her that job when you were a child he believes that that is a real thing to do you know this is what she should be doing she’s in her mind she’s helping you you as an adult it’s not helping you but you have never updated her you’ve never told her hey you can stop doing that job so in her mind she gets up every morning with you doing that job she’s never been told to stop so what we would do is we would go into a different relationship with her and we play a game called the cinderella game where you lovingly relieve her of juicy you ask her what has she missed all this time you want to do it now yeah sure i mean we’re already here so closing your eyes i think we i can feel her in the chest right now you can feel her here um a little bit the night the funny thing is you started talking like we can relieve her off your duty i can no what are you doing so closing your eyes and just feel her and first of all just allow her to be you know not pushing her away just in any way that you can say to her you know you’re welcome thank you thank you for all these years trying to protect me but i don’t need you to do that job anymore i know it’s scary but i’m an adult my life is okay i have friends no one is going to reject us for being we’re not children no one is going to reject us for not being perfect anymore just rub your chest just really make her feel welcome and ask her is there anything that you need see if she says anything we’re just listening we’re just curious welcoming gentle nothing busy ask her what she needs acceptance can you give her acceptance yeah and inclusion and it’s okay it’s okay to be here yes exactly in all our mess and perfection and imperfection allowing the emotion to be tender to all welcome just discharging some of that stress she’s carried gentle breathing and you can ask her does she have a message for you [Music] do you have a message for me little one she’s laughing or i’m just laughter i guess that’s that’s it joy you can ask her what has she missed out on all these years while she was busy trying to be an adult for you [Music] what things from her childhood or things from life does she want more of in your life what would she like more of just asking her not thinking it up we’re just listening to her joy [Music] just being loving is that available yeah tell her that let her know that in 2020 that is available for her let her know you can keep rubbing your chest just a little bit because she likes a bit of touch it’s available you’re safe in 2020 just allowing that relief that coming home that welcome to being in the breath every breath just coming home to to joining with her integrating allowing her to be with you ah last of all just going to ask her and listening deeply just going to ask her one more thing is what new job would you like to do instead now that you don’t need to be perfect what new job would you like to be doing instead which is in harmony with how we are now going to live our life see what she would like i see this it’s more of an image [Music] oh sorry of this i’m not sorry but of this girl just parading strutting joyfully paving the way i guess for me that’s what she wants great can you let her know that’s just that’s that’s okay with you yeah wonderful so just rubbing the chest one more time and thanking her and letting her know your feelings are always welcome i’m not going to abandon you you’re always welcome here your feelings are worth feeling your presence is welcome you’re always welcome here thank you for working so hard let’s be a team [Music] you’re always welcome i’m not going anywhere there’s nowhere i’d rather be than with you wow i didn’t expect this to be honest but thank you maybe you’d like to take a little break and we carry on this recording a little later would you like to just be with yourself for a few minutes um we can continue that’s okay i just i want to share the what just happened uh also for the for the listeners maybe maybe the listeners can take a little break if they did this exercise with us this little girl just standing there like waving her hands proud strutting like come on i’ll show you the way follow me this little explorer adventure um just doing her thing not thinking about doing it right or wrong or what people will think and this is their memories also attached to this me being this before [Music] the the version that we we began um sort of the perfectionist version i did stuff um secretive secretly but stuff like going into people’s backyards and mowing the lawn or cleaning out a cage with rabbits of girls that i used to play with when i was a little girl i would just sneak in um tidy things up make it a little better just because i had fun felt good um and then leaving again i think it’s that that little girl just waving around happiness and joy i guess yeah wonderful yeah because exploring and and off we go to experiment and you know is the opposite of perfectionism you know she’s put down the perfectionism so now there’s nowhere to fail you know it’s suddenly the landscape is open it’s funny what the mind is doing with me at the moment is just thinking about coming up with arguments why this perfectionism is like really helpful but it makes me do stuff and create stuff and write and make videos yeah i don’t believe that’s coming from your perfectionism i think actually perfectionism is narrowing the river because it it’s so busy being perfect that it doesn’t allow the mediocrity the different leaves the brown flowers the it doesn’t allow the whole bush to expand and great art comes from allowing mediocrity because certain things begin mediocre then they flower into something amazing you just don’t know and if we edit it as it comes in so quickly the river becomes a stream becomes a trickle jimi hendrix picasso they did some average things and some brilliant things and some amazing things but the funnel would never have allowed the amazing things to come through if it was narrowed so much to not allow the good ones and the average ones the funnel has to be wide for a big one to come through which means you have to allow mediocrity and do the editing later yeah i’m in the process of writing a book and that’s that’s a big life lesson to um working with this this topic this this inner editor this inner perfectionist um it’s not that we don’t edit we just leave it till the end yes of course you’re going to edit it before you put the book out you are only going to keep the good stuff of course yeah so how do you for example do this you just sit down and you surrender yeah you started a new piece of music and you let it be that oh really another country in western song okay whatever the muse wants to give you that day is what you get you’re receiving your book you’re not thinking up your book you’re receiving it’s coming through it’s not up to you your job is to be the pen your job is to be available to bring it in your job is not to decide exactly what everything is all the time sometimes but not always so yeah i i get i make myself available i book the studio whatever we start to make a track or we start to begin to make a film and like for example one of the most successful films i made was called what about me it’s the second one giant leap movie with eckhart toller and round us and all the greats you know santana and alanis and just amazing spread of musicians and talkers from all around the world but when we began that film it was actually a different film it was a film called two sides to everything it was all about duality and every opposite has the other truth inside and da da da da and we went off talking to people all around the world about that but what even though we thought this was such a great idea for the movie what actually happened was when we were interviewing everybody everyone just said exactly the same thing yes you can’t have hot without cold you can’t have joy it was just like the same answer everywhere it was like [ _ ] we don’t have a movie here it was like too obvious so like halfway through we’d spent a million dollars going around the world we’ve had almost like no good stuff we’re looking at each other like [ _ ] have we [ _ ] this up um but we carried on even though it wasn’t right and then [Music] the angels or the devils came in and some things happened in our personal lives which were really [ _ ] heavy um my wife left me my partner’s father died you know like all kinds of like big life things happened in very very painful ways and suddenly now when i was doing the interviews with their captainer or ramdas or whoever it wasn’t like jamie the director just trying to get good footage it was like i need to know the answers to some of these questions i was like now in it i was like personally evolved not just making a movie i was like and suddenly the questions and the answers became much more about the shadow and about desire and wounds and about awakening and about pain and about death these amazing conversations and suddenly this whole new movie flowered from this very mediocre bush which became the big you know the most successful film i’ve you know the most cult you know film furthest reach furthest impact film maybe becoming nobody is going past that now but um all because of mediocrity and resistance and we could have stopped or we could have stuck to no it has to be about duality but it wasn’t no it was like let it go where it’s going to go and it turned into something so much better than duality it turned into insanity the human condition of hiding and being crazy and being lonely and suddenly it was really a universal message of unity through insanity the first one was unity through diversity this one was unity through insanity and um yeah [Music] it was that’s what projects do you start them often they’re not really working or you just keep trying to work with it and then something happens and it turns left it turns into something totally different ah that’s what we’re doing and you have to be available and open for that [Music] was there any like chit chat in your mind back and forth like what is mine and what is coming through me no i just hope it all comes through through the filter of mine i’m the filter that part is mine you know the bit that goes um interesting i’m attracted to that or oh god that’s you know like that’s my filter but what’s coming through is life is living through us not just in making a film or in art or creativity in your relationships in everything life is living through us um we are passengers mostly nearly everything you do is inevitable you know yeah the fact that you decide to do this podcast or vlog or whatever this is podcast yeah the girl who was born where you were born with the genes that you had that had the experiences that you had in the order that you had them with the people that you had them with the brain that you have arriving today would always have inevitably had this conversation with me how could it be different it’s maths you roll the ball down the hill that’s the way it goes is it up to you your your attraction to this guy or that girl is not really a choice it’s just it arises it’s life living through you your feeling of excitement to write this book is like oh i want to write this book now your feeling of fear that makes you not do it for three weeks inevitable it’s not your choice like life is living through you you’re a passenger hopefully watching lovingly because most people that’s the difficult part the the force that you mentioned not do not having done it for three weeks that’s yeah that’s it because i just in the not having done it for three weeks and then the the self-criticism starts again and the doubts which is also inevitable none of it means anything yeah it’s not meaningful it’s just like oh there i am criticizing myself just to not make the criticizing true that’s your job and you became a little bit better at it today already and someone of your age with your experiences is this good at it okay you’re not especially great at it you’re not especially terrible at it you’re like everybody else somewhere in the middle it’s not a big drama even the part of you that can learn to make it not a big drama is on a trajectory of used to be terrible at it now i’m a bit better at it next year maybe a little better even that’s not up to you how good you will be at avoiding the drama you can pretend oh i’m going to really be good at loving myself and not but even that day that you decided to be good at loving yourself that was inevitable you’re a passenger it’s such an interesting fascinating uh topic the the the junction between like taking control and leadership and creating but also letting go uh surrendering trusting how you yourself what do you do to or if you notice that you’re going a little bit too far into like taking control and becoming a leader of as opposed to like letting go too much or maybe trusting to is or is there such a thing as letting go too much i don’t think so no i mean if i notice i notice and if i notice i try and be loving and go oh there you go again it’s okay jamie not to be like slave driver but even how much i will do that that day depends on things which are not in my control you know i can pretend i’m in control but really like it’s to do with many things it’s to do with my history it’s to do with did i eat yet today how’s my blood sugar have i drunk some water how are other people treating me it’s chaos so it’s all innocent we can pretend we have control because the ego does not like the idea there will be people listening to this going oh this is [ _ ] of course i choose this i choose that i know you have the appearance of choosing but actually every choice you make your unconscious mind your subconscious has made 50 million calculations before your front mind goes i will turn left you think you chose to go left no that decision was made long before your ego or your front mind decided you were given a summary of all the calculations because you couldn’t look at all 50 million calculations you your front mind was given a summary which just said i think left is better and so you go i will go left but that decision was made long before your mind got involved so how do you perceive self-help then if it’s just um happening or self-help also something that’s just happening yes it’s just entertainment it’s just entertainment our souls if there is if we are evolving our souls will be evolving us at the pace that our souls are evolving us including things that get sent which wake us up or squash us or remind us or challenge us um i i think it’s best to look at self-help and evolving as entertainment not something important ah that’s really nice thanks for that self-help because it lightens stuff up loads um and um and it’s a choice someone else can go no it’s important i’m here to grow fine you know like if you want to live your life that way you find it happier or more fulfilling or you think that at the end of your life you’re going to get a prize for how much you evolved or there’s some finish line i meet people incredibly inc i mean my mouth hangs open i meet people that actually say to me i’m hoping this is going to be my last lifetime that i get enlightened this lifetime and i’m like are you [ _ ] kidding me are you crazy just try going two weeks without whining let’s just [ _ ] start there shall we very light this lifetime give me a break uh i’m so hoping it never ends really [Music] you mentioned loneliness and that was one of the questions i really wanted to ask you as well um i’m gonna introduce the question i did a very um an abundance challenge so a while ago of um a d-pack chopra this is a whatsapp challenge with guided meditations yes it’s really nice um and then one of the meditations he of course consciousness is one of the big topics of course and then and i noticed like this very very um all the people in the whatsapp group were like oh so nice and beautiful and i felt overflowing with love and light and abundance and i was sitting there like it felt horrible just empty um lonely not nothing but not nice but also not horrible not painful but just nothing and it felt so i think that’s better that’s a stage and some people when they meet that stage they get very depressed they realize it’s meaningless i gave such meaning to it and i gave the meaning of my life to how meaningful it was now if you make it meaningless it’s [ _ ] depressing like what like nothing me but okay that’s a stage don’t panic but what also happens after that is what happened to that girl that you were just talking to on the inside yes you took away the meaning she thought was important but then she was like okay let’s play so the stage of oh no it’s meaningless the box is empty [ _ ] that’s one stage but then you have the next stage which is the box is empty i can put any [ _ ] thing in it that i like you know like i for instance you know for me i don’t know if it’s meaningful or not me you know i noticed that i love reading i love reading i love reading stories and you know not especially deep always you know not not especially you know like this was a good time spent to evolve my soul you know just i just love being lost in the world of the horses and the wagons and the magic and the ships on the horizon and these are beautiful environments and i just love that stuff so i was like well look you love it we’re going to allocate four hours a day for you to have it there’s no meaning it doesn’t make any difference god isn’t at the end of my life going you spent you spent far too much time reading fantasy literature you know well you know you spent far too much time just listening to music or you spent far too much time not doing anything you know like as if there is a way that you should do it for me the way that i should do it is what my heart feels is enjoyable is attractive and that might be sitting in bed for days looking out the window not feeling pressure to do anything like where did this pressure is all conditioned but when you remove when you make the box empty like with the d-pack this emptiness you suddenly realize that what do i actually like like i teach a project workshop called what about you and the first question we ask is if god came into the room and said all your life expenses are now paid you don’t have to pay rent or food anymore so what do you want to do after breakfast that’s your project whatever you would do if you didn’t need to do it spend your life doing that because you’re going to be more joyful and more relaxed therefore the people you meet are gonna be more impacted by a joyful relaxed person it’s the greatest activism on the planet is to embody no pressure peacefulness for yourself radiate it to everyone if that entertains you sounds so like logical and then again also like the the most difficult thing to allow yourself yeah the voice is going am i that is it really am i allowed to do that have i got a hall pass don’t wait till you’ve got cancer to have a hall pass like when i was 20 my best friend died and it was terrible but it was also like part of my brain went look your best friend died no one can get you to do anything at the moment do you know what i mean like no one can expect anything you’re the guy whose best friend died so you’ve got a hall pass no one can give you any [ _ ] at the moment so i was like free to just do whatever the [ _ ] i wanted because i was the guy whose best friend had just died and it really like elevated my life and you don’t need to wait for your best friend to die to realize that truth you know or if somebody just told you you’ve got a year to live you’ve got cancer you wouldn’t give a [ _ ] about all these pressures anymore you’d be like i’m going to barbados i’m going to go to an orgy i’m going to [ _ ] you know i don’t know i’m going to climb a mountain i’m going to do i don’t know what you know it’s a great question to ask what would you do if you had a year to live if you can really put yourself there um [Music] but you don’t have to wait like some guy said to me in an interview because you know most people don’t start to live until they’re on their deathbed and you see these people who have got cancer or stuff they say to you don’t wait do what you want to do none of it matters just do what makes you happy connect with the people you love just don’t wait this ends we’re all in this we’re all in this fantasy that we’re immortal because we’re so terrified of death we just have blocked it out we never think about it so we all think we’re immortal that we have time because the biggest problem we have is that we think we have time but we don’t this ends look at me i’m 52. how did this [ _ ] happen i don’t feel like 52 but you know i’ve got like 30 more summers if i’m lucky 30 more summers how many of you got 50 more summers i’m 40 but thank you oh yeah we’ve got 40 more summers 10 of which you’ll be being pushed around in a chair so let’s not wait till we’re ill or till someone dies to realize we all actually have a hall pass do what the [ _ ] you like no one is watching no one gives a [ _ ] no one at the end is going to give you a score card they’re all looking at their phone they’re all self-obsessed with their own likes and their own you know tinder and swiping and you know they don’t give a [ _ ] what you do no one’s watching so like you have i’m giving you now here’s your and all the listeners you do what you like no one cares no one’s you know [Music] and anyone that does judge you for doing what makes you feel joyful they’re not your people and your voice in your head of your dad or your mum [Music] they didn’t know so much they weren’t actually right about very much look look at their parents how they grew up so yeah have a hall pass on me thank you and then there’s this part like with this age of productivity you know like working and making stuff and being busy easy yeah it’s it’s all right totally identifying with that part as well for everyone who made lots of money do they look happy they’re some of the most unhappy people in the world because they’ve got to that place and they’re still there with all their [ _ ] but now they’ve got nowhere to go so it’s a real panic paradise syndrome elton john you know the stadium of people shouting your name you still come back to the dressing room by yourself and go what the [ _ ] am i doing with my life like everyone society and life has shown us that these values of if i can just get sex successful and rich then i’ll feel good but we look at all the people that have done that and they don’t but we just ignore that fact again and again and again what about you mentioned okay do the stuff that you love the first thing that came to my mind um is working on the podcast uh the content polishing it the channel just just yeah the project podcast project sorry and that’s what triggered me or the association about this workaholism like okay this is what i love but it’s also like i get sucked in and then getting sucked in is lovely yeah oh it’s awesome yeah you found your flows great so it’s just this judgment oh you’re working all the time and maybe that’s just [ _ ] it’s okay to get sucked in and just do it yeah just go with it and yeah that’s just you know go with it exactly go with it you’re a passenger there’ll be other times where you suddenly don’t feel like it you think you know what i just want to be in nature for a bit i’m going to the mountains i just need a month of nature and lovemaking no turning the phone off you know and that’s what you do for that flow there’s no always the same rhythm commission can i end up because i want to be um thoughtful about your time uh i read you’re working about a new movie working on a new movie or was it was it kind of it’s a bush at the moment are you talking about adam and eve adam and eve yeah yeah in fact it just took a little lift recently you know you have to wait you have to make yourself available you know because i don’t want to do another movie with lots of faces talking the thing about men and women is you know like it’s boring now so i’m trying to find a new way to make it interesting you know but yeah since the embodiment conference which was fantastic i don’t know if you saw anything yeah i met some really cool people uh one of them is elaine stefani who wrote this wonderful book about being a prostitute and everything she learned about love um it’s a fascinating book wow and a couple of other people i’ve been talking to ruby may who who runs know your flow old friend of mine we teach a workshop together called [ _ ] and bastards um some of the conversations now seem to be giving some little buds on the bush which look a bit more interesting than just a straight documentary so yeah it’s just a movie to heal the male and female wound on the planet you know there’s so much potential between us but we’re so [ _ ] up with all the brutality and violence and control trips and manipulations and battling between the battle of the sexes you know i don’t think we’ve really stepped forward very much in that area it’s it’s behind all the other consciousness so i want to make some work which really accelerates the potential of us going hey you me let’s [ _ ] heal this [ _ ] and step into our potential our juicy potential together imagine what we can do if we’re on each other’s side so i want to create a project to film a movement which makes that potential accelerated and yeah sounds really really interesting i can’t wait for for the project to blossom and grow thank you i’m being patient um is there something you would like to add or um say to my listeners that you feel you would want to add there’s one practice that i would recommend if people are thinking yes it’s all very good but how do you do it you know like something i i’m all about being practical sort of the masculine side of like do this you that’s the sort of lovely conversation part so we have a i’m inventing my ancient taoist lineage my own ancient chinese um practices and one of them is i call the secret of the eight bowls i invented it because i become so codependent in relationship that i go crazy like if i’m with a girlfriend suddenly almost everything else in life stops or or everything in life becomes less important than the relationship and if they’re if we’re getting on well and life is good and the relationship is good life is good but if the relationship is going through problems in life then life is bad you know like it was far too much of a influence on my life but this practice works for everything not just that so it’s called the the secret of the eight balls of fulfillment you decide what activities or things in your life make you go to sleep with a smile on your face like your podcast is one of them at the moment you feel passionately about that yeah mine are present beautiful time with my kids not on screens do you have kids no okay so that’s one of mine another one is my love of books and music and literature that could and movies that could be three bowls really but we’ll just make it one but i know you know when i’ve seen a great movie or read a great few chapters of a book or listen to some music and i i feel good you know like that’s fulfilling three my spiritual practice which is really not a practice but it’s just living the kinds of things we’ve been talking noticing my [ _ ] noticing the angels laughing at me me laughing at them someone once asked me jamie how do you pray i say usually prayer my praise of prayers are things like that’s not [ _ ] funny okay there is a relationship so that kind of journey really healthy by the way now often it’s like ah you’re not gonna get it i see what you’re doing there but that relationship of humor and names that’s a bowl the other one is being creatively productive when i’ve written a blog or i’ve made a movie or i feel good you know smiling face that’s for another one is being helpful to people you know like taking you through this little thing today that might help your life a little bit i don’t know when we’ll meet again if we’ll i may never meet you again but i know that maybe your life is one atom closer to your joy and permission than it was before we met so that feels good for me you know i think being helpful to people another one is is looking after my body and my house which is kind of the same um you know like taking a slow shower slowing down everything brushing the teeth slower some people jump in and out the shower in out dry off i guess very unconscious actually to do it half speed it’s a great practice to for one week do all your washing and your body half speed moisturize with the oil or the cream slowly like this arm is a beautiful arm do it with slowness and consciousness also cleaning my house hanging the laundry that makes me happy so that’s another one spending time alone and in nature this is not a bowl that i give enough to but i know that when i do it i feel happy and fulfilled um so that’s seven i always forget the eighth one and it will come to me later it’s always telling it’s always very telling the one i always forget i don’t know what one it is but yeah those um you call it the eight ball of silver so they’re bowls they’re bowls that feed me ah bowls okay yeah yeah so if i make sure if i have a picture of the eight bowls with the labels on and i look at them in the morning and go have i neglected any are they how and if i keep them all fairly full [Music] then the other problems of life or the loneliness or the negativity they can’t get me so much i live a happier life you know and i am more full myself my loving awareness is stronger and therefore i can be of more service you know because we can only give from a full cup yeah like some beautiful she said um we give from the saucer you know the saucer you know that word the saucer is the little dish that they cut okay okay i was just thinking like oh no i’m missing something yeah the the whole tea cup yeah so we give from the saucer which means that there’s so much in the cupping has spilled over the side and there’s enough now to give from the saucer when your cup is full yeah so you’re giving what flows over yeah well you have extra you don’t give from half empty that’s a really nice exercise also for people listening like if you put out your earphones just sit down and write what are your eight balls what are your eight balls and make sure they’re full as much as you can a friendship this was the one i forgot the other day well the second time i forgot that in a week i obviously need to call some people yeah the other one is friends yeah non-sexual friendship platonic you know like eros is fine but like not you know like non-sexual friendships really cultivate those you know even if it’s on a screen who are the five people that you haven’t that you care about that you haven’t spoken to for ages send them a little message just say hey i just wanted to say i’ve been thinking of you yeah i don’t want to lose contact with you all right that’s that’s a big one for me i also keep forgetting because when you’re sucked in and you’re especially now like we’re all in this semi locked down weird situation it’s very easy to get lost in your own bubble and for me it’s fine i received this [Music] this message today due to increasing covert 19 cases oxford residents will be moved into hire two alert from tomorrow this means you will not be permitted to socialize with anybody outside your household or support bubble in any and indoor setting whether at home or in a public place [ _ ] you i mean i am observing but don’t tell me that i’m not permitted i mean i am i am uh observing that’s what has been sent to you today so you are not permitted to socialize or go it’s insanity it’s the word um it’s the word permitted that bothers me yeah it’s the opposite of freedom i don’t need your permission or approval or judgment thank you for hanging out with me today well thank you for taking time and hanging out with me um i really hope once the travel restrictions are lifted um because i know we’ll build rika and actually she was the one that introduced she’s who us so to today to say let’s not lose contact oh well here you go are you in holland yes i’m in holland and i’m there in a few weeks yeah that was my question so if it is lifted it would be nice if the if the restrictions are um yeah anymore we could have a cheeky cappuccino yeah good are you in amsterdam or an attract no i’m in the east of the netherlands there’s no really big cities here in the neighborhood i live in the in the forest basically um yeah okay well i would love to um when i’m coming i’ll let you know yeah great um well thanks again and um have a great day and see you in the netherlands see you soon thanks for having me bye Engels (automatisch gegenereerd)